Curse

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evisicator

And Yes Lucas fuct up with episodes 1-3. He should have never catered to the younger crowd, his core fan base is between the ages of 25 and 45. Matter of fact he should have had his directors chair taken away from him to never be returned after jedi.

Well, the problem is - he didn't direct Empire or Jedi. Lucas is notoriously uncomfortable working with people (though he does manage to get nice performances it's at the cost of abrasive relationships he has with his actors) and would rather focus in on the technical aspects of production.

It's evident that George Lucas isn't a big Star Wars fan, ironically. I think he got his fill of the story and setting long ago and can't seem to shed it. When he promised a prequel of 3 films he might have felt obligated to make them. In fact, some of us recall that, in the beginning, he actually promised 3 prequels plus 3 more films that would follow from Jedi.

Lucas makes more money with ILM and probably used Episode 1-3 to showcase and develop his CG tools to promote ILM as the premier SPFX company.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 06, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Well... I'd have to say that I enjoyed Star Wars Ep. IV and V immensely, except the ridiculous ewoks at the end of Ep. V.
Little did I know they were what the rest of the movies would be like.

Star Trek: I liked the OS. It was real space opera. ST:TNG and its spinoff, no thanks, much too touchy-feely for me. Much too fluffy for me. Although when the Borg show up they inject much-needed grittiness, so those episodes are good.

However, to be honest there's so much sci-fi I'd rate higher than any of them. Alien I-II, The Thing (the 80's remake), Pitch Black, Starship Troopers I, Babylon 5... even Red Dwarf, Blakes 7, and Dr Who.

A Thought To Ponder: Who'd win in a fight between star trek security men (who always die within two minutes) and star wars storm troopers (who can't hit the broadside of a planet)?

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

A Thought To Ponder: Who'd win in a fight between star trek security men (who always die within two minutes) and star wars storm troopers (who can't hit the broadside of a planet)?

Well there's a difference between the Storm Troopers of "A New Hope" (badass) and the Storm Troopers of "Return of the Jedi" (keystone cops). Also one of the things I hated about Jedi.
If you were lucky enough to have seen Star Wars first at the time it came out - your concept of the Star Wars "universe" is likely different from someone who started with, say, Jedi.

But the Star Trek security men were great at flying backwards into walls and falling unconscious.

Digression: Remember Starship Troopers? For anyone who read the novels the portrayal of the Troopers was an utter disappointment. I was looking forward to all the tech - but all we got were grunts who didn't aim and always covered each other in crossfire (tactics that would cause massive friendly-fire casualties). OK - maybe the latter issue is for purists, but it bothered me just the same.

midnyte13 · Sep 06, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Star Trek TNG!...if you watch any of these episodes religiously. They were/are far more personal and emotional. examples when Data created a daughter who he had to shut down., when Worfs wife was murdered, when the bejoran ensign took an assignment as a cardassian hostage and was killed in the line of duty......just to name a few....

TNG nuff said

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnyte13

Star Trek TNG!...if you watch any of these episodes religiously. They were/are far more personal and emotional. examples when Data created a daughter who he had to shut down., when Worfs wife was murdered, when the bejoran ensign took an assignment as a cardassian hostage and was killed in the line of duty......just to name a few....

TNG nuff said

Yeah - I know a lot of people who begged me to give TNG another chance after that horrendous first season. I'll have to check it out sometime.

Still... Star Wars has better merchandising ...

Thanas · Sep 06, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Anybody watched Babylon 5? The Babylon 5 universe easily rivals SW any day IMHO. Walter Koenig (AKA Chekov OS ST) does an excellent job as Bester. He's much better playing an evil character.

zehly · Sep 06, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

It's like... STAR TREK FTW!

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehly

It's like... STAR TREK FTW!

who says?
I demand a recount.

Aracos79 · Sep 06, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Anyone who thinks Star Wars is better needs to sit down and watch some of those Trek episodes that I listed. NOTHING in Star Wars can match the acting, storyline, or character in any of those episodes. "Chain of Command" is probably one of my favorite Trek episodes ever. Anyone who can not be moved by Picard in that episode simply has no heart.

Star Wars is so shallow it's laughable. The only meaningful moment in the entire franchise is Vader's revelation that he is Luke's father. And even that is ruined by Mark Hamill's TERRIBLE acting.

Star Wars has never tackled big issues like Trek did. TOS Trek told us a lot about ourselves and the issues of the day. And if you think the Patriot Act is bad... check out "Homefront" in DS9. Not to mention that Trek doesn't rely on supernatural, religious mumbo jumbo as its key selling point. Take the Jedi out of Star Wars and you're left with LESS than nothing.

EchoSex · Sep 06, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Star Trek if it has Patrick Stewart. Star Wars if it's one of the original 3.

Alura Pyro · Sep 06, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

trek wars.....
Data use the force to save diana from darth klingon.....
luke raise the shields fire photon torpedos down the exaust chute of the borg cube......

(as you can tell i'm bored)

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Anyone who thinks Star Wars is better needs to sit down and watch some of those Trek episodes that I listed. NOTHING in Star Wars can match the acting, storyline, or character in any of those episodes. "Chain of Command" is probably one of my favorite Trek episodes ever. Anyone who can not be moved by Picard in that episode simply has no heart.

Star Wars is so shallow it's laughable. The only meaningful moment in the entire franchise is Vader's revelation that he is Luke's father. And even that is ruined by Mark Hamill's TERRIBLE acting.

Star Wars has never tackled big issues like Trek did. TOS Trek told us a lot about ourselves and the issues of the day. And if you think the Patriot Act is bad... check out "Homefront" in DS9. Not to mention that Trek doesn't rely on supernatural, religious mumbo jumbo as its key selling point. Take the Jedi out of Star Wars and you're left with LESS than nothing.

It's interesting that some people are actually offended by Star Wars! Gee Whiz!
It's easy to compare the worst elements of Star Wars with the best moments of Star Trek. Conversely it's easy to compare things the other way around.

Boils down to a matter of taste. If you don't buy that "force mumbo-jumbo" then that's your prerogative.

Big digression: Kinda reminds me of people's response to the film "Jerry McGuirre." Half the people I knew were moved by the love-story and half thought it was contrived and hokey. The remarkable thing was how the sides were diametrically opposed (no "grey area"). I've heard of more than one couple whose "breakup" was provoked by one person's inability to be "moved" by that film.

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alura Pyro

(as you can tell i'm bored)

maybe you should hang out at the Kiwi thread for a while -

Aracos79 · Sep 06, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Umm... I compared Star Wars' BEST moment with some of Trek's best. Vader's revelation is the key point in the entire series, and definately the most powerful and emotional. I'll grant you without question that William Shatner and Mark Hamill are about even on the "terrible acting" scale. Kirk in "Wrath of Khan"... nuff said. :P

I also won't debate for one second the technical and special effects contributions of Lucas and of Star Wars. Modern sci-fi owes much of its existence to those advances. But as a piece of science fiction by itself, Star Wars is purely pedestrian. It is outshined by Trek in every other aspect.

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Umm... I compared Star Wars' BEST moment with some of Trek's best. Vader's revelation is the key point in the entire series, and definately the most powerful and emotional. I'll grant you without question that William Shatner and Mark Hamill are about even on the "terrible acting" scale. Kirk in "Wrath of Khan"... nuff said. :P

I also won't debate for one second the technical and special effects contributions of Lucas and of Star Wars. Modern sci-fi owes much of its existence to those advances. But as a piece of science fiction by itself, Star Wars is purely pedestrian. It is outshined by Trek in every other aspect.

Star Wars isn't really science-fiction - it's a "space opera." In that respect Star Trek is closer to true sci-fi. I like them both for different reasons. As I mentioned before, Star Wars means something else to those of us who saw the first film in the theaters - for us, it provoked our imaginations. Star Trek TNG didn't come along until many years later - even then, it's first season was awful.

You never forget your first "love." Subsequent Star Wars films don't measure up to the impact of seeing the first one for the first time in the movie theaters. For its time there was nothing like it - and it blew me away. Since then so much has changed in Hollywood sci-fi (much of it due to Star Wars) - and it's hard to understand the strength and importance of the first film if you weren't around then.

I'm not saying one is better than the other - I'm saying I like Star Wars more than Star Trek - and that's what the OP is all about.

Aracos79 · Sep 06, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I guess I was a little gruff in my delivery. I'm not trying to put anyone down... I've just been a Trekkie for as long as I've been watching TV. My dad would tape TOS Trek (because it was on too late) and we'd watch them together. Boy those VCR's in the 80s sucked.

Arturo02 · Sep 06, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I find it funny that the newest additions to each franchise's cache ruined it's continuity. Enterprise and the prequels.

I just don't get how someone who gets paid a lot to write the prequels didn't study the OT. I watched Empire last night, haven't seen it in a few years and each contridiction popped right out immediately.

I'm waiting for the Starfleet 90210 series to come out. See Kirk, Dylan, Piccard, and Screech in high school!

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 06, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

I guess I was a little gruff in my delivery. I'm not trying to put anyone down... I've just been a Trekkie for as long as I've been watching TV. My dad would tape TOS Trek (because it was on too late) and we'd watch them together. Boy those VCR's in the 80s sucked.

Heck! I like the original Star Trek series more than the newer one. Yeah, it's cheezy and kitschy but I love it nonetheless. I remember back before we even had VCRs! One of my friends taped episodes on audio casette and I thought he was a genius! Later his dad was the first guy I knew to get a VCR ... it was a Betamax! LOL.

Arturo02 · Sep 06, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

Anybody watched Babylon 5? The Babylon 5 universe easily rivals SW any day IMHO. Walter Koenig (AKA Chekov OS ST) does an excellent job as Bester. He's much better playing an evil character.

I try not to compare this series with SW and ST because it would be unfair. You really gotta separate them because of the writing. J. Michael Straczynski is a very good and seasoned television series writer.

And best of all, he knows when to get out. He doesn't keep going with a franchise if he doesn't think there is a story to tell, or ruin it when there are other things he could be writing instead.

draco inferno · Sep 06, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

i agree with thanas in that babylon 5 was a great show. beats ST, imo. but for me, SW will always hold number one in my heart.